Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in October.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I am 46 and my husband is 51.
We have been married for 21 years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
Yes, we have two sons.
One is 18 and just graduated high school. He is currently taking a gap year and living at home, taking community college classes and working.
Our younger son is 15 and is a sophomore in high school.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We live in a small town right next to a large urban area in the southeastern U.S.
We have the best of both worlds — the vibes of a small town (we regularly see neighbors when going to the local coffee shop) with the proximity of living next to a large city (and its international airport).
What is your current net worth?
As of today, it’s about $2.5 million.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
In order of largest to smallest percentage, the main assets that make up our net worth are our retirement accounts ($1.75M), real estate ($775k main house, $100k apartment in South America, where my husband is from), college funds ($150k), taxable accounts ($50k), cars ($50k).
We have $262,000 left on our mortgage and about $10,000 left on a car note. Astute readers will notice that those assets and debts add up to a bit more than $2.5 million, but I only value our house at $700k to be conservative.
EARN
What is your job?
I am a personal finance writer at the individual contributor level. I currently earn $76,000 per year.
My husband is a director of marketing and most recently earned a total of about $235,000 per year. He’s taking a sabbatical right now after enduring a super-toxic work environment that left him emotionally and mentally drained.
So, as a couple we most recently earned just over $300k per year.
My earnings are much less than they would be if I hadn’t taken time off to be a stay-at-home mom to my kids, or taken jobs after that based on their schedules and proximity. I ended up teaching for eight years, through the Covid years.
After moving to the southeast and realizing how little teachers were paid, I retired from that very demanding field and became a writer (I’d been freelancing on the side for years, writing personal finance articles so it was somewhat of an easy jump to make).
I spent years reading about people in the workforce who were able to grow their careers and focus so much on their jobs, and always thought how impossible that was for me. I finally realized that many of these same individuals had dedicated spouses who took care of their homes and families and allowed them to be super achievers in the workplace.
Now that my kids are older and I’m able to focus a bit more on my career, I’m enjoying growing it and looking into roles that challenge me and will grow my income in the short amount of time I plan to continue working.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
I’m not going to count the jobs I had growing up and in high school, because I started working at age 9 in my dad’s office, and continued working pretty steadily through high school and college. I made minimum wage in high school which was $5.25/hour and worked as a server in college, making $100 on a good night.
I spent most of that on clothes.
The job I consider my first real job in the U.S. (because I lived and worked abroad for three years after graduating from college) was as an account executive at an advertising agency.
I was 25 years old and made $30,000 to start, and $45,000 by the time I left two years later to stay home with my newborn. That was 2005-2007.
I didn’t work again until my youngest was 3. I don’t count the network marketing company I joined as a SAHM, because I didn’t earn money.
I went into debt with that business, much to my husband’s chagrin. When I went back to work, I worked as a part-time marketing manager and then director of marketing for a non-profit and made $30,000 up to $35,000 for 20 hours per week.
After that, I transitioned to teaching, and earned $50 an hour for part time work as an ESL teacher. Then when we moved South, when I was 40, I became a full-time teacher and earned $42,000 to start, and $48,000 by the time I retired four years later.
Maybe someone will notice that my starting salary as a teacher was less than I was making at the end of my first job when I was 25. It was also the hardest job I’ve ever had, by 1000%.
After that I found the job I’m currently in. I really like my job but my industry can be a bit unstable, so I am looking for other jobs, and in doing so have realized how underpaid I am (the curse of the former teacher!).
Our family’s main income earner is my husband, who has worked tirelessly for many years, increasing his income from $50,000 when he started work in the U.S. in 2004, to his latest salary of $235,000. I am very proud of him, because he grew up with very little, and has built a super-successful career as an immigrant to this country, first in communications, then in marketing.
He is well respected in his industry. While he does plan to go back to work after a few months or a year, we think he’ll retire at age 55 (in about 3 and a half more years) using the IRS’s Rule of 55, if everything goes according to plan.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
I think that in today’s market, you have to be willing to jump ship and take jobs at other companies. Job hunting can also help you see where you can grow in terms of marketable skills so you can look to take on those responsibilities in your current role.
For example, I noticed when job hunting that content strategists make a lot more than writers, so I’m taking on content strategy responsibilities as much as I can in my current role.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
It’s absolutely fantastic. My job is remote, so I am home all day.
After teaching, any job would have felt like a walk in the park, but the writing position I have now is so nice. I wake up at 6am, take my son to school, go on a walk or go to the gym, come home, make myself a healthy smoothie, take a long time to get ready and linger over coffee, then start work around 9 or 9:30.
I write intensely until about 2pm, then I spend the afternoon on odd tasks. My older son picks up my younger son at 2:30pm, and we make it a point to eat dinner together every evening.
We try to watch shows or movies together, but it’s harder now that the boys are teenagers and are more interested in friends, girlfriends or gaming.
My husband had to work slightly longer hours at his previous job, but he’s always made sure he has a strong work-life balance. He joined a company for many years that allowed him to come home at 4pm (he would start work at 7:30 or 8) and was really present at home.
Now that he’s quit his job, all four of us are home together and it’s been so nice to spend more time together.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
For a long time, I was a freelance personal finance writer. I’d make $200 per piece I wrote, which isn’t much, but it was fun extra income that eventually landed me the job I have now.
I no longer earn freelance income but if you can write at all, I think freelancing is a great way to earn money.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
This is a hard question, because it varies so much depending on the year.
We budget with You Need a Budget (YNAB), and have for years, but our annual spending for the past five years is all over the map, although it’s averaged $160,000.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
I have pasted my YNAB categories below for 2024. These are yearly totals.
A couple of notes: Our auto category is high because we took out an auto note that’s $1,000 per month which we hope to pay off soon. Tolls were also very high for my husband’s drive into work.
The maintenance category includes some larger-than-normal spending for replacing an HVAC unit. We are members of a country club, and while we have debated quitting the club, we ultimately get so much joy and social capital out of it that we’ve decided it’s worth it, for now.
We spent a lot on our kids last year because they both were part of the robotics team and I traveled to World Finals with my oldest. We traveled in general a fair amount in 2024, to South America (three times) and Cuba for a mission trip.
In the past, we were much more careful about our spending, but since we’ve achieved multi-millionaire status, we’ve relaxed our spending a lot. My husband has been instrumental in encouraging me to do this, because I could be so militant about the budget that I would suck the joy out of a lot of life.
This is something I’m working on. Plus, teenagers eat so much, so this is a category of the budget I’ve just increased as necessary.
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
We recently made a big change in how we manage our finances. It was a long time coming, but I wish we’d made the change sooner.
When we first got married, we combined our finances completely. We also had debt, like many couples.
In 2008, after my husband was laid off twice in one year (good times), I read Dave Ramsey’s Complete Money Makeover and we took the Financial Peace course at our church. While I’m grateful for the Dave Ramsey book and course, I no longer recommend his books or information because I think his investing advice is short-sighted and I’m not a fan of some of his company’s stances.
We did get out of debt just over 18 months later and I became very interested in building our net worth. That’s when I found the FIRE community, Mr. Money Mustache, and many others.
I also discovered YNAB and built our first budget there. My husband has some early money trauma from growing up in poverty, and so although we tried to have monthly budget meetings, they ultimately didn’t work.
For about twelve years or so, I managed our budget and my husband and I just talked over any big purchases. However, that led to me making decisions without involving him, and some unhealthy behavior in general around our finances.
So, about six months ago, we made the decision to separate some of our finances, and it has been a great change.
Basically, we each put a certain dollar amount into our joint account to pay for our shared bills. The dollar amount is based on the percentage of income we contribute (mine is a lot less than his, or was).
Then, we keep the rest of our paychecks in our own accounts. We pay for all of our discretionary purchases and split up some joint purchases (he pays for the boys’ haircuts; I pay for their clothes).
Now, we’re able to spend without feeling guilty that we’re spending too much or letting our partner down. This system may not work for everyone, but for us, it’s been a positive change.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
I’ve tracked it since 2014. We’ve averaged 27% for a gross savings rate and 36% for a net savings rate.
There’s really not a trend, although for the first few years we saved more. It’s just fluctuated over time as our circumstances and incomes have fluctuated.
What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?
Invest early and often.
We were very fortunate to be in a position to invest early on. We had no college debt — I got a scholarship to college and my parents paid for the rest.
My mother-in-law paid for my husband’s college (his father died when he was 13) and he put himself through grad school.
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
I’ve struggled with frugality my whole life but my husband’s great at it! He’s naturally frugal (poverty does that to you!), so he does things like add water to the shampoo bottle to use up every last drop.
I’ve always wanted to be the Millionaire Next Door and I’ve gotten better as I’ve gotten older but I love to spend.
So, in that spirit, if you’re not naturally frugal, my tip to you is to spend way less on the big three — housing, transportation and food. Buy a house that’s much less house than you qualify for, ideally with a mortgage that’s around 10%-15% of your total take home pay.
Buy slightly used cars and drive them as long as you can. Make most of your food at home and save eating out for special occasions (do as I say and not as I do haha).
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
We splurge on two things, really — food and travel.
We love to eat and eat out, not at fancy places, but at some of our favorite mid-priced restaurants. We love sushi, Indian, Szechuan cuisine, Korean BBQ, and pho.
And we love to travel as much as we can. We don’t do a lot of long weekends away or trips close to home.
We tend to save up and travel internationally and do big fun trips.
We just got back from the United Kingdom. It was my son’s graduation trip and he chose the location. We toured so many WWII sites around England and explored beautiful, rainy Ireland.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
Our investment philosophy is to invest early and often for the long haul. We’ve invested almost exclusively in securities-based index funds.
We’ve maxed out both our 401ks for a while but haven’t maxed out Roth IRAs, unfortunately. We hope to play catch-up there and convert some of our IRA to a Roth IRA when my husband retires in a few years and our overall income (and tax bracket!) is lower.
What has been your best investment?
I’m sure the investments that have produced the largest returns are the ones we made early on in our careers. We were so fortunate to be able to save early.
When we moved back to the U.S. and began working, we both saved 25% of our incomes. That amount has doubled several times since those early years. I wish we’d saved more then!
What has been your worst investment?
Any time I buy an individual stock, it seems to tank.
Luckily I’ve never invested too much in individual stocks (maybe $100 here and there) and have preferred broad-based index funds instead.
What’s been your overall return?
I’ve only kept track of our overall return including contributions, so it’s quite inflated, but as of December 2024, we’ve earned a 27.42% return on our investments since I started keeping track in 2011.
Again, since this includes our contributions, it’s in no way accurate. I haven’t tried to tease out just the return.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I monitor our portfolio once a year, in December, and rebalance then. I’ll occasionally rebalance in the summer too.
I vacillate between which index funds to invest in, and have recently added some bond funds back into our mix, which currently also includes international funds and total stock market funds.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
We accumulated our net worth the old-fashioned way: by living below our means and investing as much as we could in boring index funds for many years. We’ve also had the benefit of a ridiculously long bull market so our investments have increased substantially.
My husband has worked very hard in his career to be a top performer and earn the highest raise he could. He worked in a company that paid market salaries, and I only worked part time for many years, so we’ve never earned a huge amount, but we have always prioritized investing.
We always drive used cars, have bought smaller houses than we qualify for, and don’t spend much on designer clothes or fancy restaurants.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
I’m going to say that for us, we are probably slightly-better-than-average at all three.
We’re not super-high earners, we’re not the most frugal and we don’t have the most winning investments, but because we’ve worked on gradually improving our ability to earn, save and invest well, we’ve achieved results that have taken us far.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
We started our married life in debt, because we were following what we thought was the preferred life plan. I should say, I was following the preferred life plan — going into debt to buy a car, putting 5% down on our first house.
My husband was smarter than that but I often talked him into these decisions. We finally figured it out in 2008 and paid off our debt, then became very focused on building up our net worth.
My husband was laid off twice in 2008 and I wasn’t working, and that huge road bump ended up being the very best thing that could happen to us because it forced us to change our ways. I can’t say it was all good — I’m still unraveling some money/security issues I have from that time — but it was definitely a wake-up call that came early enough in our marriage that we were able to benefit from it.
After that, the hardest part was being patient.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
We’re staying invested in the market and trying to invest as much as we can at a time when our income has significantly dropped. We’re being smart about our spending but not fanatically so.
Right now, we’re using this season as a chance to rest and heal. We plan to tap into the investments we’ve worked so hard to build and we’ll continue to grow them once my husband’s sabbatical is over.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
It’s always more than you have, right? I remember thinking that when we hit a $2 million net worth we’d be set.
And now… well, with inflation, that’s not necessarily the case. I think it would be nice to get our investments up to $3 million.
Right now they’re at about $1.8 million so we’ve got a little while to go. But we’re planning to retire when my husband hits 55 regardless, and I’ll keep working a little longer.
Based on our planning worksheet, our investments will continue to grow so we should get there in a few more years.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
We hit $1 million when I was in the last month of 40… I turned 41 the next month. My husband was 46.
After our first million we maybe relaxed our spending slightly, but we didn’t change a whole lot. When we hit $2 million, we relaxed our spending a little more, which coincided with our boys entering the teenage years and life becoming more expensive in general.
We’ve had to adjust to those changes. We hit $2.5 million shortly after my husband left his job, so that was actually reassuring that we’re doing okay even without his large income.
In general, we’re much less worried about our spending, knowing we have that net worth to back us up.
What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?
One habit has been to save and invest first. Because I like to spend, I’ve learned that we have to save as much directly out of our paychecks as possible and our investing is all automated.
That way, we’re not tempted to spend more than we should.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
Like most people say, I’d start investing a lot earlier and waste less money early on!
I’m starting Roth IRAs for my boys and as soon as they start earning money I’m going to encourage them to max them out.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
Max out your 401k if you have one. Max out your HSA if you have one.
Live below your means. Don’t live in a fancy neighborhood. Find a healthy balance between spending consciously and saving/investing.
Life is more than just saving every penny and money can make life very sweet if you’re intentional about how you spend it.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
My husband plans to retire early at 55, once our youngest graduates high school. We’ve got enough saved for both of them for college, if they go to a state school.
I plan to keep working until I’m 55 (or thereabouts) but since my job is remote, we plan to spend part of the year here in the Southeast and part in South America to be near my husband’s family. We also want to slow travel a lot.
We know this won’t happen immediately because we’ll want to be close to the kids while they’re in college, but we’re thinking this will happen in the first decade of our retirement. My husband will probably pick up a part-time job or side gig since he needs to keep busy and always has plans and ideas for businesses to start.
In fact, he’s already started refinishing furniture and flipping it in the short few months he’s quit his job. I’m sure these side gigs will continue in retirement.
What are your retirement plans?
Aside from splitting our time between continents, we’ll likely volunteer (important to both of us), get more involved in our church, spend as much time supporting our kids as we can, and hopefully enjoy a slower pace of life.
If this is a taste of retirement, it seems awesome.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
Yes, I’m a little worried about one or both of us getting bored, but I’ve read a lot of retirement blogs and that doesn’t seem like a problem.
I’m sure it will be hard to switch from an accumulation to a de-cumulation phase once we retire, so I’m thinking about how to mentally handle that switch.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
I feel like I figured investing out in college, when my dad started explaining stock trading to me. That was around the time that online brokerages were becoming popular, and I opened an Ameritrade account and started investing in some blue chip stocks.
I socked away a lot of my graduation money and when my husband and I wanted to buy a house, I was able to liquidate my account, now worth $12,000, to use as a house down payment.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
Growing up, I watched my two grandfathers, who were very different but lived next door to each other for a while, and they became my lessons in money management.
My dad’s dad was a physician and lived in a big house. He was very popular in the community and known for his extravagant generosity.
When I was little, he always showered us with gifts and money at Christmas. As time went on, though, he moved to a smaller house, the gifts dried up and so did the money. When he died, he left my grandmother with a modest paid-off house and virtually nothing else.
My mom’s dad had worked his way up in the electric company as a lineman. My dad always joked about how frugal he was. He saved a lot.
They lived in a modest house next door. When we were little, we got a few Christmas gifts, and a little money from these grandparents.
As we got older, my grandfather increased the amount of money he gave us until every time he saw us, he gave us $100. They moved from their modest house to a nicer house and then an even nicer house, always paying in cash.
When he died, he left my grandmother with a paid-off house on the marsh worth almost $1M, as well as several million dollars in investments and his monthly pension.
Watching how my grandfathers managed money was instructive for me. While my mom’s dad was always made fun of for being frugal, he was ultimately able to be incredibly generous to his family and his widow.
He made sure she was taken care of before he died. My dad’s dad didn’t do that and left his widow relying on her small Social Security check.
I think watching the difference in how they managed their money showed me that if you’re able to save and invest early, it will pay dividends later on.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
Everyone always recommends the same books in this section so I’m just going to mention one that’s not normally mentioned here.
One of the first money books I read was Andrew Tobias’s The Only Investment Guide You’ll Ever Need. He’s since updated the book and the principles behind his investment advice are strong.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
We’ve always given to charity and we do tithe; however, we have stopped tithing temporarily until my husband starts working again.
We’ve always donated about 5% of our income to charity, which I know is not 10%, but we also donate a lot of time to church and charities, and we financially help family members when they need it.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
We plan to leave our inheritance for our boys, but we also plan to give them gifts during the years when they actually need help, versus when they may be in middle age or even later and don’t need the financial help as much. We’ve encouraged them not to rely on financial gifts or an inheritance (we’ve told them we’re not leaving them anything so they won’t rely on it — haha, we’re so mean), but we want to always be a support that they can count on, just as my parents have been for me.
We’d also like to take them on lots of family trips as they grow up and have families of their own. We also hope to leave part of our inheritance to our church and favorite charities.
