Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in November.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I am in my late 40s and have been married for 26 years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
No kids, it didn’t work out for us. I do think I would have been a great dad, and I have enjoyed watching my friends raise their children over the years.
Most of my family is far away. I try to visit at least once a year.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
I recently moved to a rural area in the Midwest.
What is your current net worth?
Little over $2.5 million.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
My assets are about half property. Home $800K, Airplane $175K, Cars, RV, Boat, and Equipment 180K.
The rest is stocks, savings, and retirement accounts. Stocks 800K, Retirement 450K, and Cash 100K.
I do not have any debt other than a small credit card balance that I pay off monthly.
EARN
What is your job?
My job is to sell technology solutions and build strong relationships with large enterprise clients. From an organizational chart perspective, I am considered an individual contributor at the bottom of the org chart.
However, my influence and impact on strategic customers result in sales for the company. In my view, being the face of the company and its products with these clients places me much closer to the top in terms of business impact.
What is your annual income?
My annual income varies based on my success each year. On average, I would say $300,000 over the past 10 years would be fairly accurate.
My highest year was close to $500,000, and I am trying to position myself to have more of them in the future.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
If we were to go back to the beginning of time, my first job was a paper route. That didn’t pay a salary, so my first salaried job was selling electronics out of high school at a local electronics shop.
My salary was $100 per week plus commissions. Based on the number of hours I put in, I quickly realized this is not worth it.
From here, I took some paid courses at the local college to learn about Information Technology. Toward the end of the course, my lab partner passed me a job description.
I congratulated him on the sweet gig he just landed; honestly, I was kind of jealous at the time.
To my surprise, he was offering me the job. Travel to 30 cities across the country, installing computer equipment for $35,000 per year.
Eventually, I landed a job at the help desk of a large company. I started learning about the different IT roles and quickly saw that the individuals supporting servers earned more than I, the person supporting networking, and the server administrators earned even more.
The architect made the most. I spent the next decade learning, obtaining certifications, and holding various positions at large telecommunications and banking companies.
At some point, I began to realize that the people making the real money were consultants, who got to work on the latest and greatest technology. I did this for a while and naturally gravitated towards the sales side of the business.
Initially, curiosity, initiative, and luck fueled career growth. To this point, I have significantly advanced my career by staying curious, striving for new challenges, and, at times, intentionally working myself out of a job.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
It might sound counterintuitive these days with the push to work from home. Early in your career, establish yourself in an office and build your professional network.
The bigger the company and city, the better. Focus more on getting attached to the projects or deals that matter, rather than how much you make.
Money will come with time and with your gained experience. The people you build relationships with are the ones who are really going to help you grow your career.
It goes without saying that you need to add value and build a strong personal brand, but without recognition or people willing to support your growth, it will be challenging to increase your income.
In my industry, I had an inner voice that always whispered to me to work yourself out of this job. This did not mean the job would disappear, but rather that I would help someone take my place so that I could move on, learn more, and grow.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
Right now, actually pretty good. There is an ebb and flow to the job where we might work weeks on end due to a customer issue or working to close a big deal.
However, for the most part, I am now in control of my calendar. This is something I value more than most things these days. I have colleagues who have advanced to high-level positions with significant titles and considerable visibility and fanfare.
When I look at their calendars, they are double- and triple-booked in internal meetings months in advance.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
We owned a business for about a decade. This was an endeavor I supported, but to be clear, it was 100% my wife’s accomplishment.
She built a sizable business that we sold several years ago. She took a few years off after running hard for ten years straight and now consults with small businesses.
It is not a huge source of income at this point, but it all helps. We are always looking ahead and discussing what is next.
A key focus for me is to establish a side hustle that could eventually become a source of income as I transition away from a W2 income from an employer.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
Over the last few years, my spending has been higher than what I would consider my annual budget. We recently built a new home, paying cash while also focusing on eliminating all debt from our finances.
Home build and debt elimination aside, we typically spend about $100,000 a year.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
I will exclude taxes.
Categories in the list of top spend: food and dining, which includes groceries, restaurants, and wine. We like having good wine in the house at all times.
Next would be shopping, which I categorize as including clothing, subscriptions, electronics, and general shopping at places like Amazon and Target. Next would be bills, phone, Internet, and utilities.
Lastly, and this one fluctuates from year to year, is travel and experiences. I prefer to spend my money on experiences, live music events, trips with friends, and attending the occasional Formula One event.
I have no problem spending what some would consider a lot of money on good tickets or upgraded experiences. We can’t take the money with us when we are gone and I look at money as a way to experience life.
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
This has been a focus of mine this year. I am trying to determine a reasonable number that I refer to as our burn rate.
It should be closer to $80,000 per year, assuming we avoid debt and large purchases. I am typically the one who stays on top of the finances, but we maintain full transparency regarding where the money is.
I simply use Quicken Classic to track everything.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
Becoming debt free the last few years has been my top priority. With that said, I was still able to save some money and invest.
Moving forward, I anticipate the savings will accelerate now that there is nothing left to pay off. All remaining money each month will go to savings and investing.
Assuming my income remains level, I will be striving to invest and save 50%
What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?
You will notice a recurring theme in my answers: pay off any debt early. There have been several times in my life when I was shocked by how much interest I was paying on my post-earnings dollars every month.
If you have any debt, list each one by the interest rate, not by the amount of debt. Put a monthly number to that and total it up.
A mortgage, a home equity line of credit, two car loans, a business loan, and a few credit card balances will shock you. It did for me.
I am embarrassed to say how much money was once going to interest, and the amount of earnings needed just to pay the interest can be eye-opening. It seems to me that the simple math is that for every $1 you spend, it takes $2 of earnings.
Forecast the interest over 1, 5, and 10 years. I looked at paying off debt as my best way to save money. It has literally saved me several hundred thousand dollars.
I justified buying an Airstream RV with the interest I saved by paying off my first house early. Strangely, that purchase ended up saving us more money on travel.
If you haven’t RV’d, it is a great way to travel; you have your hotel, kitchen, and shower with you at all times. Airstreams seem to hold their value as well.
If I were to sell it today, based on our trips and usage, it has more than paid for itself.
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
Fractional ownership, if you can find the right group of friends or partners, is a great way to enjoy or splurge on nice things without bearing the full cost burden. Additionally, consider paying for purchases with cash and settling your credit card balances on a monthly basis.
It now makes me pause before making any big purchases. It’s easy to walk into a dealership and sign up for a $500 monthly payment for that new car.
Writing a $60,000 check for it, then the tax on top will give you pause. At the very least, it should give you a moment of pause.
I have had several successful ventures in fractional ownership. I have shared my plane with several individuals over time. Typically, we try to keep at least three partners in this asset.
To my surprise, the plane we own has also appreciated in value, something I was not expecting. I also have a fractional ownership in a sailboat.
This is with some neighbors of mine, and it has been a blast sailing this past summer. On a more frivolous note, I have had part ownership in a few racehorses.
Not a recommendation if you are looking to make money, but fun to watch and cheer for your own horse on race day.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
I own an airplane. I can’t really justify the expense in any way. It is nice to know that when I wake up tomorrow, I can fly to just about any city in the USA if I want.
If it is something that has ever crossed your mind to become a pilot, do it. If you live in the United States, you have the most pro-general aviation environment anywhere on the planet.
It took me a few years to get my license, and approximately cost me $10,000. I later went to achieve my instrument rating, one of the hardest things I have ever done.
That took me quite a bit of time to study and practice for the practical. An instrument rating allows a pilot to fly through the clouds. Makes it much easier to fly when the conditions are not perfect.
There are so many airports across the country that you can land at, and in many cases, they will let you use an airport courtesy car to get around if you are buying fuel. Opens up so many fun adventures.
I have taken trips several times just for a meal at an interesting destination. My next trip will be to see a rocket launch in Texas.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
To date, it has primarily been stocks, with a buy-and-hold strategy being the most suitable approach at this point. We have a bit saved for retirement, but to be honest, and this may go against the grain, I am not a big fan of putting my money in a place where I can’t see it until I’m 65.
I purchased my first T-Bill this past week to see how it works. I never purchased one before.
Currently, I have reduced my equity position and may sit on the sidelines for a few months before making my next move. As I look ahead, I am leaning towards a mix of individual stocks, index funds, treasuries, and land.
If the right opportunity arose, I would be interested in investing in a business that my wife and I could focus on for the next chapter in our lives.
What has been your best investment?
I was granted some stock options at work.
I purchased them outright and sat on them for a while. It has turned out to be my best capital gain thus far.
There are also a few stocks in our retirement account that have performed well. My absolute best investment has been in myself and my professional network.
Without learning new technologies and being curious to take on new challenges, I would have never earned enough money to invest. If you receive stock at work, understand the tax implications.
Depending on the situation, you may want to buy the option earlier to take advantage of long-term capital gains rather than selling them at the time of vesting. I have received stock grants, RSUs, and options to purchase stock at a few companies I have worked for.
Ask for stock if you are negotiating a new position or job, especially if it is a pre-IPO company. Ask for more than they offer; they can always say no, but they just might say yes, and it could turn into a nice payout down the road.
What has been your worst investment?
Early in my life, when I had some money saved up, I opened a brokerage account. I was convinced I could become a successful day trader.
One morning, on the way to work, I made a bold investment in an IPO and sold it just five minutes later, earning $10,000. I thought I was a genius.
I then became emotionally attached to a stock and ultimately lost at least $100,000. I was reckless at the time, triple-leveraged in swing trades I had no business being in.
What’s been your overall return?
Not really sure, but moving forward, I would like to strive for 6%.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I keep a close eye on my finances on a weekly basis and track my investments less frequently.
Everything in Quicken is accessible at our fingertips anytime.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
My journey is somewhat boring. I had a steady increase in earnings over time.
This was accomplished by investing in myself, working hard, expanding my professional network, and securing a new role with greater earning potential. I wasn’t dumb enough to blow up my finances more than once or twice at a young age.
We have made some good investments that have appreciated in value over time.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
Earning money has been our primary means of accumulating wealth. I am good at saving and now living within my means.
The investing part, I would say, I got lucky, and with equities over the past decade, everything is up for the most part.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
I never thought I would have a net worth of over $1 million. My biggest bumps, as I mentioned before, were blowing up my finances a few times due to debt or outright gambling and losing my savings in the stock market.
Picking yourself up and figuring out a way to get the balance sheet to a positive place was key. Being able to look back over time at my losses in the stock market as an investment in wisdom that will hopefully save me from bigger losses in the future.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
My focus now is to really understand my burn rate moving forward. What is the monthly dollar amount I need to enjoy life? This includes developing a revised budget moving forward.
I am pursuing a new position that offers even more upside in terms of earning potential. With a little more work and luck, it would be nice to get 5 to 10 more high-earning years.
With the right investments, this should get us to a place where “retirement” is a reality.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
If I could expect a conservative $40,000 – $50,000 yearly return on $1,000,000. My number is $3.5 – $4M in liquid assets.
I think it is reasonable that I could get there within the next 10 – 15 years.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I probably crossed the million-dollar net worth 5 years ago. Around the same time, we sold our starter home and began building our dream home.
Around this same time, I became very focused on eliminating debt. I wanted to ensure that even with a new home build, I came out the other side with zero debt.
I am most proud that we own everything we have and still have a good amount of money in the bank.
What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?
Early in my career, I took the risks to pursue new positions and was able to adapt to new roles quickly. In many cases, I found myself well over my skis but was able to find a way to be successful.
This trait really got me to a point where I was earning a nice paycheck. From a habit perspective, I always tracked my spending and believe I am pretty good at saving money as well.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
After losing $100,000 on a single stock, I had a period where I sat on the sidelines in cash for too long.
Had I just invested in a market index fund, I would already be much closer to a number where I wouldn’t have to work anymore.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
My answer might seem boring. Spend less than you earn and put some money to work for you through investing, allowing it to grow over time.
I can’t say it was my plan, but it is how I got to where I am. With some luck and effort, it may sneak up on you over time.
If I were to do it all over again, I would take more risks in starting a business. Becoming wealthy through a W2 paycheck is not easy; I believe it has the highest tax burden.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
Retirement, not sure that is in the cards for me. I will always do something, perhaps just a job where I earn less, have more free time, and develop a new skill set.
My current financial situation allows me to take on a new position in my industry. It comes with risk but also more upside.
At some point, we will most likely downsize, and our property will be a component that will help us fund our “retirement” years.
What are your retirement plans?
I would really like to have something on the side, call it a side hustle, that generates some additional income and keeps me busy. I have some ideas and will probably test a few out over the coming years in my spare time.
My financial plan is to build my investment and savings positions, allowing the money to generate free cash flow through interest or dividends. This would be supplemented with whatever the government will provide after a certain age, if there is any money left in the government’s social security accounts.
As for activities, I could see myself getting into woodworking as a hobby. I really like building things. It gives me a sense of accomplishment.
I will also continue to travel, golf, sail, and fly airplanes as long as I am healthy enough to do so.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
Having enough money always concerns me, but on the flip side, I don’t want to worry too much and sacrifice living the good life now. I like the concept of experience dividends.
When I am old, I want to look back and relish the memories of all the fun experiences we had. My plan is simply to make informed decisions and weigh the trade-offs between spending now for experience and saving more money to invest, ensuring we have more as we age.
As I think this through, the biggest concern I have is our health. I have seen many people in my life now get the dreaded news of a health-related problem.
Or reach an age where it no longer matters if you have any money; you can’t enjoy it. I need to come up with a better plan to stay fit.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
I always read books, listen to podcasts, and watch financial news. This perspective was shaped by the goal of making money in the stock market.
However, it is only recently that I feel I have a clearer understanding of how money works. I would say that about 10 years ago, it finally clicked that the system is rigged, and it’s not rigged in my favor to be successful.
If you really dig into it and look at what the average family pays in lifetime expenses for income taxes, interest, student debt, insurance, fees, permits, sales taxes, property taxes, and capital gains, it is amazing that any of us can get ahead.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My coworkers and friends have provided the most inspiration for me throughout my career. Without them, I might not have had the courage to evolve and grow out of the many jobs I had into new and more lucrative ones.
One of my heroes is Elon Musk. Politics aside, what he has achieved is incredible.
I had the opportunity to tour SpaceX in Los Angeles many years ago. This was early in their journey, when they had achieved some initial success with their reusable rocket, Flacon9.
Elon walked past me twice, and I didn’t have the courage to say hi. I wish I had said hello.
I also drive a Tesla, or should I say it drives me. The latest version of full self-driving is out of this world.
It feels like I am living in the future. I encourage everyone to listen to his latest biography, “Elon Musk” by Walter Isaacson.
Elon is focused, smart, and extremely hardworking.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
I don’t really have favorites, one that stands out that I haven’t read in a while is “Black Swan”.
I read this back during one of the financial crashes. It really made me think differently and gave me a new perspective.
Recently, I have been reading Ray Dalio’s “Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order”.
We can trace back to the earliest known civilizations and directly compare their rise and fall with current times. The systems he has created to track the rise and fall of empires are fascinating to me.
A favorite trading book is “Technical Analysis” by Brian Shannon. I became emotionally attached to a few stocks that ultimately cost me money. His take on stock analysis and price action helped me break free from that mindset.
I am convinced it has saved me from repeating the same mistakes in my past.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
I do give to charity, and I do not have a set percentage. I give because I hope it helps, and selfishly, it makes me feel good.
Many of the charities I have supported over the years focus on finding a cure for cancer. It baffles my mind that society is not further along in this endeavor.
Sometimes I will see a random cause and will anonymously give. For example, a friend posted that a young single mother recently lost everything to fire and is trying to get back on her feet.
The cause resonated with me, and I gave some money; she will never know who it was from. If I can give directly, rather than through an organization, I would prefer that.
I also donate my time and money to local first responders. I started this a few years ago and will continue to do this into the future.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
This question made me sit up. We don’t have heirs, and I can’t say we have seriously considered this.
I don’t have a plan. I need to work on this.
