Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in September.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and your spouse, if applicable), and how long have you been married?
I am 43 years old and currently single.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
No, I do not have any children.
What area of the country do you live in (and is it urban or rural)?
I live in a high-cost-of-living (HCOL) urban area in Southern California.
What is your current net worth?
At the time of this writing, my current net worth is approximately $2 million.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
I have been a renter my entire adult life, so I have no real estate holdings. This has been a very conscious and strategic decision, which I’ll elaborate on shortly.
My only debt is my credit card balance, which I pay off in full every month without fail.
My assets are broken down as follows:
- Retirement Accounts (Traditional 401(k): $820,000
- Allocation: This is invested aggressively. Approximately 90% is in an S&P 500 index fund, with the remaining 10% spread between international and mid-cap index funds. I hold no bonds in this portion of my portfolio.
- Traditional IRA: $65,000 in S&P 500; I don’t have a Roth IRA.
- After-Tax Brokerage (All Stocks): $683,000
- Allocation: The majority, about 95%, is in a broad market total stock market ETF. The rest is in the cash management account.
- Health Savings Account (HSA): $147,000
- Allocation: I treat my HSA as a long-term retirement vehicle. About 80% is invested in a total U.S. stock market ETF, and the rest is in international ETF.
- Individual Stock: $10,000. This is a very small, legacy position that I’ve held onto.
- Cash (High-Yield Savings Account): $194,000.
- T-Bills: $130,000.
(Note: Unvested RSUs from my employer are not included in this net worth calculation.)
You will likely notice that I appear to be quite cash-heavy, with over $320,000 in cash and T-Bills. This is a temporary state, as a large portion of it comes from recently vested RSUs that I sold.
I plan to deploy a significant portion of this into index funds over the next few months. However, I also intentionally maintain a larger-than-average cash position.
I view my cash and T-Bill reserves as my “bond” allocation. Instead of holding traditional bond funds, which can fluctuate in value with interest rates, I prefer the stability and liquidity of cash.
This gives me psychological comfort and allows me to maintain a very aggressive stance in my equity investments. So, while on paper it looks like I’m nearly 100% in stocks, mentally I operate on a 85/15 stock-to-cash/bond equivalent ratio.
At one point, I seriously considered using this cash to buy a small home, but I ultimately decided against it. There were many reasons for this.
First, the Southern California real estate market is incredibly expensive lately, and the numbers just didn’t make sense from an investment perspective. The annual carrying costs—property taxes (which are substantial), insurance, and the commonly cited 1-2% for maintenance—would have far exceeded my current rent for a comparable property.
Second, remaining a renter gives me immense flexibility. I am not tied to one location, which is a huge advantage if a better career opportunity arises elsewhere or if I decide to retire to a different state or country.
The freedom from worrying about a leaking roof or a broken water heater is a non-financial benefit I value highly.
EARN
What is your job?
I am in a People Manager role for an engineering team at a large healthcare company. I lead a group of 25 engineers, and my role is a blend of technical oversight and people management.
I have been in this type of techno-manager role for the past few years now, and it suits my skill set well.
What is your annual income?
My current base salary is $229,000 per year. This is supplemented by a discretionary annual bonus and Restricted Stock Units (RSUs).
The bonus and RSU components are highly variable. In good years for the company, they can add a significant amount to my total compensation.
In other years, the bonus may not be paid out at all, and the value of RSUs can fluctuate with the stock price. Because of this unpredictability, I have adopted a strategy of cashing out my RSUs as soon as they vest.
While this creates a taxable event each time, it de-risks my compensation and provides me with cash flow that I can control and invest according to my own plan.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
My income journey began relatively late compared to many of my peers. I earned my Ph.D. in engineering and entered the workforce in 2011 at the age of 29.
My first “real” job was at a well-regarded healthcare company in the Midwest. My starting salary was $87,500, which felt like a fortune at the time, but there was no bonus structure.
For the next six and a half years, I received paltry annual raises averaging just 2.5%. I was learning a lot, but my income was stagnating.
Recognizing this, I made my first strategic job hop. I moved to a different company that offered a 10% salary bump plus the introduction of a performance bonus, and I stayed there for about three and a half years.
The real turning point in my career, however, was my third job. This opportunity required a move to the West Coast, but it came with a life-changing 44% jump in base salary and a significant title upgrade to a management position.
This move was the single biggest catalyst for my wealth accumulation.
That 44% jump wasn’t just luck. I had become very intentional about my career growth.
I saw that salaries for my skill set were significantly higher in tech hubs on the coast. I spent months preparing—updating my resume, networking on LinkedIn, and practicing for interviews that focused on both technical and leadership skills.
For the salary negotiation, I came prepared with market data from sites like Glassdoor and Levels.fyi, and I created a “brag sheet” that quantified my accomplishments from my previous role.
I was able to clearly articulate the value I would bring, which made it much easier for them to approve a number at the top of their range. After a couple of years in that role, I moved to my current job for another 13% raise, landing me in my current Manager position.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
First and foremost, you must be willing to negotiate your salary, but you must also understand what you are worth. As a manager, I can tell you that we aren’t fools (well, not always).
I fight to retain top talent and reward my team for the tangible value they bring to the company. That value needs to be visible through your work, your impact on projects, and the feedback from your peers.
Second, think of your career as an infinite game. You need to constantly be upskilling and checking your premises.
What skills are in demand today? What skills will be in demand in five years? For example, when I saw my career shifting toward management, I proactively took online courses in project/technical management and people leadership.
This wasn’t a formal requirement, but it showed initiative. I also recommend becoming the person who solves your manager’s problems.
If your manager is constantly stressed about reporting project statuses to leadership, take the initiative to build an automated dashboard that does it for them. Cliched example, I know.
When you make your boss’s life easier, you become indispensable, and that is how you get recognized and rewarded.
Finally, do not be afraid to change jobs. My own history is proof that loyalty to a single company rarely pays as well as strategic moves to companies that are willing to pay market rate for your skills.
The biggest salary increases almost always come from switching employers.
What does your work-life balance look like?
Right now, I am putting in more time at work than I would like—often closer to 60 hours a week. It is not an ideal sustainable pace, but I recognize that this is a critical phase in my career.
I am in a leadership role where I need to be visible, demonstrate my capabilities, do the work, and mentor my team on how to do their work effectively. My hope and expectation is that as my team matures and our processes become more streamlined, my work-life balance will become more reasonable in the coming years.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
No, my W-2 job is my all-in source of income. Many years ago, I did dabble quite seriously in the world of credit card points and miles.
I had moderate success, accumulating hundreds of thousands of points that funded several trips. However, the game has become much tougher in recent years with banks tightening rules.
It became more of a chore than a fun hobby, so I have since scaled back. I still hold several premium credit cards with annual fees, but I am diligent about using their specific benefits (like travel credits and lounge access) to ensure I am getting more value than the fee I am paying.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
After accounting for a tax rate of roughly 35% as a single filer in a high-tax state, I focus on saving and investing the remainder. My annual spending over the past few years has ranged from a low of $35,000 to a high of $55,000.
To be conservative and account for variability, I would say my average annual expenses are around $40,000.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
Here is a breakdown of my typical monthly expenses:
- Rent: $2,000
- Travel: $500 (This is an average; some months it’s zero, others it’s higher for a big trip)
- Miscellaneous: $300 (Haircuts, shopping, entertainment, etc.)
- Gas: $150
- HSA Contribution: $137 per paycheck (This is a savings vehicle, but I list it as an expense)
- Insurance (Car, Renters, Health, Vision, Dental, Legal): $125
- Dining Out: $200
- Groceries: $250
- Utilities (Electric, Internet, etc.): $120
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
I do not have a rigid, line-item budget in the traditional sense. Instead, I practice what I call “conscious spending.”
I know my fixed costs (rent, insurance, utilities), and I have general targets for my variable costs. I monitor my finances every two weeks.
This process involves logging into my bank and credit card accounts and pulling the data into a simple spreadsheet I designed. It allows me to see my spending by category and track my savings rate.
Because I invest in ETFs, I manually transfer a set amount into my taxable brokerage account each month after all my bills are paid. This regular check-in keeps me accountable.
If I notice my dining-out expenses are creeping up, I make a conscious effort to cook more for the next couple of weeks.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
With about 35% of my gross income going to taxes, I focus on my savings rate as a percentage of my net (after-tax) income. My fixed expenses account for roughly 25% of my take-home pay.
This leaves me with a very high savings rate, typically in the 65-75% range in a normal month. In years with significant one-off expenses, like a major international trip or unexpected medical bills, that rate might drop to a still-respectable 50-60%.
What’s your best tip for accumulating money?
My best tip is to focus relentlessly on increasing your income. Saving is a powerful lever, but it is finite.
You can only cut your expenses to zero. Your income, on the other hand, has a virtually unlimited ceiling.
If your primary goal is to accumulate wealth, you need to honestly ask yourself if you are working in an industry that rewards you for your skills and performance. The market pays for high performers—look at top athletes, finance professionals, or skilled engineers.
They have to “perform” consistently at a high level. Find a career where your performance is measurable and rewarded.
Be smart about your career choices, become dependable at work, and serve with integrity. The savings will follow.
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
Don’t hoard stuff. This is not a philosophical or spiritual statement; it is just common sense.
Use what you have to its fullest extent. My 7-year-old laptop still works perfectly for my needs.
I have a Motorola phone that works just fine as a iPhone 17. I will replace them when they die, not when a newer model comes out.
Make it a game to never pay retail price. In today’s world, there is almost always an opportunity to get a discount, whether it is through a coupon code, a cashback site like Rakuten, or simply by asking.
Check your surroundings and resist lifestyle inflation. It is so easy to fall into the trap of “keeping up with the Joneses,” especially in a place like Southern California.
My colleagues get new luxury cars; I keep driving my paid-off Honda. You do not need to buy that bigger house or newer car just because people in your social or professional circle are, especially if you cannot comfortably afford it.
I don’t drink tea or coffee. Not because I spend less, but it was never a habit since childhood. So I don’t crave Starbucks.
But I happily accompany my friends who can’t function without them :).
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
My absolute favorite thing to spend money on is travel. This is where I allow myself to splurge.
It could be upgrading to a business class seat for a long-haul international flight, which makes a world of difference in comfort, or booking a hotel with a spectacular view. More recently, I have also been enjoying exploring the incredible culinary scene in my city, trying out different cuisines and fine dining restaurants on the weekends.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
My investment philosophy was born out of a feeling of being behind. I did not get my first real job until I was nearly 30, a time when many of my undergraduate peers were already a decade into their careers and had been investing for years.
I knew I needed to be aggressive to catch up. So, my plan from day one was simple and powerful: save as much as I possibly could, front-load my savings into low-cost, broad-market index funds, and hold them for the long term.
I automated my savings into my 401(k) and HSA and then manually invested any leftover cash at the end of the month into my taxable brokerage. The plan was boring, but its consistency is what made it effective.
What has been your best investment?
Without a doubt, my best investments have been consistently maxing out my HSA and my 401(k) every single year. The tax advantages of these accounts are incredibly powerful wealth-building tools.
The HSA, in particular, is a triple-tax-advantaged powerhouse: Except for CA where it is treated as income, in general it is tax-free contributions, tax-free growth, and tax-free withdrawals for medical expenses.
Outside of specific accounts, my strategic career moves have provided the highest return on investment, fueling the engine of my savings.
What has been your worst investment?
My worst financial—and personal—investment was a bad marriage a few years ago. I didn’t marry well.
It was a difficult and emotionally draining period. Financially, it was devastating.
Some of my prime years for wealth accumulation were completely derailed. It took a significant amount of time and money to recover, and it created a temporary but deep dent in my net worth.
Around the same time, I also made the classic mistake of lending a significant amount of money to family members. I did it out of a sense of obligation, but it was a hard lesson to learn: when you lend money to family, you should consider it a gift, because it almost never comes back.
The combination of the divorce and these loans happening concurrently was a perfect storm of financial stress.
What’s been your overall return?
Over the last five years, my portfolio’s performance has been strong, with an annualized return of over 12%, with the notable exception of the market downturn in 2022.
This is largely because my investments are heavily concentrated in S&P 500 and total U.S. stock market index funds, which have performed exceptionally well during this period.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I check in on my portfolio every other week, or at least once a month. This is not for market-timing purposes, but rather for tracking and rebalancing.
My bi-weekly check-in is part of my overall financial review. I look at my asset allocation to see if it has drifted significantly and to identify where my next investment contributions should go.
It is a quick, 15-minute process to stay informed and on track.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
My net worth was built from the ground up, with no inheritance or windfalls. I started with about $20,000 in savings after finishing my Ph.D.
The formula was simple: Earn, Save, and Invest.
Earn: I focused on increasing my income through strategic job changes. As I detailed earlier, moving from a low-cost area to a high-cost area for a 44% raise was the primary accelerant.
Save: I have always lived significantly below my means. In my early 30s, while my income was climbing, I kept my lifestyle the same.
My entertainment was often free—hiking, beach days, reading books from the library. This created a massive gap between my income and my expenses, and I funneled that entire gap into investments.
Invest: From my very first paycheck, I started investing. I began with target-date funds in my 401(k) and then learned more and shifted to low-cost index funds.
I maxed out my 401(k), T-IRA and HSA every single year without fail. I did not try to pick stocks or time the market.
It was a boring, methodical process of buying and holding.
Avoided Major Financial Traps: I avoided the two biggest expenses: an expensive house and a fancy car. By choosing to rent and drive a modest, reliable car, I freed up hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past decade that went straight into my investment portfolio instead of into interest payments, property taxes, and depreciation.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
My greatest strengths have been a combination of Earning and Saving. While my investing strategy was simple, it was the high savings rate, fueled by a rapidly growing income and disciplined spending, that did the heavy lifting.
The discipline to stay the course and understand the ESI model was the first critical step.
I also believe that staying healthy has been an unsung hero in my financial journey. Medical expenses can be one of the biggest threats to financial stability.
By prioritizing my physical and mental health through exercise, good nutrition, and stress management, I have been able to stay productive at work and keep my medical costs low. In that sense, earning and saving become a natural byproduct of a healthy, grounded life.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
The two biggest road bumps, as I mentioned, were a bad marriage and lending money to family members. The financial cost of the divorce and the unreturned loans totaled close to half a million dollars. It felt like a punch to the gut.
For a while, I was emotionally devastated and felt like I had taken a massive step backward.
Handling it was a multi-step process. First, I had to allow myself to grieve the loss—not just of the money, but of the future I had envisioned.
Then, I had to shift my mindset. I told myself, “This is the largest, one-time charity donation I will ever make in my life.”
Framing it that way, as a sunk cost and a (very expensive) lesson learned, helped me move on. From there, I went back to basics: I focused on my job, rebuilt my emergency fund, and doubled down on my savings rate.
The experience made me more resilient and reinforced the importance of financial independence and setting firm personal boundaries.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
My primary focus is to continue performing at a high level at work. An annual increase of 10-15% in total compensation, through a combination of raises, bonuses, and promotions, is what I strive for.
This will continue to be the main engine for new investment capital. I plan to continue my strategy of investing aggressively in low-cost index funds and maxing out every possible tax-advantaged avenue.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
I do not have a single, fixed number, but this is something I have been thinking about a lot lately. My initial, back-of-the-envelope goal was $4 million by age 50, which seemed achievable if I remained single and continued renting.
Ultimately, my goal is to have “enough” to lead a comfortable, secure life and to be able to support my loved ones, particularly my aging parents.
A more concrete vision I am working on is this: by age 55, have a portfolio of $5 million+, plus enough set aside to potentially buy a modest home with cash if I decide I want one. This would also need to cover future healthcare costs and provide a cushion to support my parents.
It is a work in progress, but having a flexible target helps guide my current decisions.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I was 40 years old when my net worth crossed the $1 million mark. I remember checking my spreadsheet and feeling a quiet sense of accomplishment, but honestly, nothing changed.
There was no big celebration or lifestyle change. I went to work the next day just like any other.
The only minor shift was feeling a bit more relaxed about money, perhaps allowing for more frequent travel and occasional nice dinners out when I started dating again.
What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?
Surrounding myself with the right people. I sought out friends and online communities (like the MMM forums) where people were on similar financial journeys.
Being able to have open conversations about saving strategies, investing, and career moves with like-minded individuals was incredibly validating and educational.
A complete disregard for “keeping up with the Joneses.” I genuinely do not care what other people think of my old car or my simple lifestyle.
Leading a rich life, to me, has nothing to do with flaunting richness.
Distinguishing between frugality and cheapness. I am frugal with things that do not bring me value (like a new car or brand-name clothes), but I am not cheap.
I spend generously on things I care about, like travel, health, and experiences with people I love. I take care of myself and do not feel deprived.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
Not investing earlier. I should have started investing in my 20s, even though I was a grad student with a small stipend.
Even a few thousand dollars invested back then would be worth a substantial amount today due to the power of compounding.
Not optimizing credit cards. During my M.S. and Ph.D., I paid my rent for years with a credit card that offered no rewards, even though there was no fee to do so.
I left thousands of dollars in potential points and miles on the table.
Not negotiating my first salary. I was so grateful to get a job offer that I accepted the first number they gave me.
That mistake cost me tens of thousands of dollars over the six years I was at that company, as all my future raises were based on that low initial salary.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
My advice is a four-step process: Listen, Learn, Adapt, and Execute.
We live in a golden age of financial information. Listen to podcasts, read books and blogs, and learn from the experiences of others.
But do not just consume information—adapt the principles to your own life and personality. Then, most importantly, you must execute.
All the knowledge in the world is useless without action. Start that budget, open that IRA, ask for that raise.
If the younger generation can understand the psychology of the market and the insidious nature of wasteful consumerism, they can navigate the financial minefields and come out far ahead.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
My ideal future involves retiring from full-time traditional work before the age of 50. However, I am also a realist.
High-paying, engaging jobs are not easy to come by, and I want to be patient. So, my plan is to continue performing well in my current role for a few more years while maintaining a healthy lifestyle.
After that, I would like to transition to part-time consulting or contract work for a couple of years. This would allow me to “test the waters” of retirement, keeping my mind engaged and bringing in some income while I adjust to a life without a 9-to-5 grind.
What are your retirement plans?
I envision a retirement that is active and flexible. I see myself waking up without an alarm, going for a long walk or run on the beach, reading for hours, and working on passion projects.
I want the freedom to travel spontaneously, using the travel arbitrage skills I have developed to see the world comfortably but affordably. I plan to spend extended periods of time with my aging parents, ensuring they are well-cared for.
My retirement will be less about sitting still and more about having the flexibility to go wherever I want, whenever I want, for as long as I am physically fit.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
My biggest concern is healthcare. The rising costs and uncertain quality of healthcare in the U.S. are a major source of anxiety.
My primary strategy to address this is to save aggressively in my HSA now and to maintain my physical health for as long as possible.
Another concern is the “Die with Zero” paradox. I love the philosophy of the book by Bill Perkins—the idea of using your money for maximum life enjoyment and not hoarding it only to leave millions behind.
However, the practical application is terrifying. How do you spend down your assets without the fear of outliving your money? It is a fine line to walk.
My current thinking is to use a “guardrails” approach, where I might allow myself to spend a higher percentage of my portfolio in my more active years (60s and 70s) and then tighten the belt if market returns are poor.
I do not want to be the richest man in the graveyard.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
The concept of saving was ingrained in me from a young age. In my household, “health is wealth” was a more common saying than anything related to material wealth.
We were not poor, but we were never wasteful. The real “click” for me, however, happened when I got my first paycheck.
Seeing the taxes taken out and realizing how much effort went into earning that money made me intensely focused on making sure every dollar I kept was put to good use.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
I have many heroes. My dad is a primary one.
He has always led a simple, frugal, and content life. I remember him judiciously maintaining a physical ledger to track household expenses every single day.
That habit of being mindful about where money goes was a powerful early lesson. Later in life, one of my close friends became a huge inspiration.
He has a very healthy relationship with money, viewing it purely as a tool to build the life he wants, not as a measure of his self-worth.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki: This was the book that first opened my eyes to the idea of assets versus liabilities and the concept of money working for you. While some of its advice is controversial, the foundational mindset shift it provides is powerful.
I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi: I was initially put off by the cocky title, but the content is pure gold. It provides a practical, step-by-step system for automating your finances and focuses on “big wins” like negotiating your salary and investing consistently, rather than agonizing over the cost of a latte.
The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel: This is perhaps my favorite money book of all. It is a collection of short, engaging stories that illustrate how our behavior, biases, and emotions drive our financial decisions far more than spreadsheets or formulas.
It taught me that succeeding with money is less about what you know and more about how you behave.
Many stories from MMM forums. FMF site in the past and ESI.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
I sometimes joke with my friends that after my alimony payments and the money I “donated” to my family, I have already met my charitable quota for this life! In all seriousness, while I am not currently making large monetary donations, I do believe in giving back. I give my time by volunteering at events for causes I care about, primarily those focused on mental health awareness.
As my financial situation becomes even more secure, I plan to incorporate more structured monetary giving into my financial plan.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
Since I do not have children and do not plan to have any in the future, I will not have any direct heirs in the traditional sense. That said, I fully intend to ensure my parents are financially secure for the rest of their lives, and I have made provisions for that.
Beyond that, my current plan is to align with the “Die with Zero” philosophy. Any wealth that remains at the end of my life will likely be distributed to a few select charities that are meaningful to me.
My goal is to use my wealth to enrich my life and the lives of my loved ones while I am here, not to build a massive posthumous legacy.
